A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. ! My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. kerdi membrane over osb Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Problem with very thick cement board/ tile/bullnose edge, Steam Shower Slip Joint Detail - The secret is in the boarding stage. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. 120 sq feet including the floor. Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. Yup! if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Hang the cement boar. Kerdi Membrane Over Greenboard (Is It Recommended?) Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! Is this overkill? Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. Caulk the gap. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. Schluter Kerdi on regular drywall - GreenBuildingAdvisor I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. The manual can be found here: http://floorelf.com/waterproof, I would say unless you are experienced in working with Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing membrane kit, then I would say work with an easier waterproofing approach, either liquid waterproofing or a combination of liquid and traditional waterproofing (plastic covering the wood frame). Think about movement. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. rev2023.3.3.43278. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. Shower walls construction made easy with Kerdi-Board panels. - La Tuilerie Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. Kerdi vs Redguard cost breakdown. : r/HomeImprovement - reddit We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. "..2) the kerdi band isn't stuck flat -- the edges in some spots are wavy. rev2023.3.3.43278. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. They are square. What is the proper substrate to use on tiled wall? x 60 in. A successful tile installation largely depends on the substrate that the tile is attached to. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. (3ft-3in wide). #3 This is a DIY site. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. the cost of the tile job. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Any recommendations? Wedi vs. Kerdi Waterproof Membranes: Which Is Better? GoBoard Vs. Kerdi For Your Shower: In-depth Comparison Contact us: 888-472-4588 However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. It only takes a minute to sign up. RedGard On Hardibacker Board. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. Let's start! To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Please feel free to reach out to our Product Support Team at 1-800-992-6273 if you need anything. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Kerdi on shower curbs - JLC-Online Forums You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. How to Install Kerdi Membrane - YouTube Can You Put RedGard On HardieBacker Board? - Next Modern Home When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. Step 2: Determine the room's center. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Thanks to all for the feedback. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. 120 sq feet including the floor. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. Hi.I have a unique situation. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. This is the traditional tile backer. They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. x 48 in. x 96 in. Building Panel The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Personally, I like standard drywall. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Sealing the tub flange for tile: 3 methods - DIYTileGuy Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com Your email address will not be published. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. Can you put Kerdi membrane over cement board? They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? Like the example above. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . Make sure to use multiple coats, if necessary. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. We recommend our users to update the browser. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. You provide the pitch during the tile set. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Kerdi Vs. RedGard (Compared) - Build It Fine I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. How to install a kerdi membrane over cement backer board - Quora Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. Kerdi Membrane not sticking to cement board - John Bridge Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Kerdi Membrane Installation (Step-by-Step Installation Guide) Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. Anytime Mongo. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. Best substrate for kerdi membrane - nsbu.treviso-aug.it KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. Some being easier to work with than others. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. LONDON. The site is called floorelf.com. Thanks Paul! Also - use a good thinset. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. . You are wise to use a cement board. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. Jun 21, 2017. Yes. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. It's still applied to cement board. It only takes a minute to sign up. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. When installing KERDI with . if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. How do I connect these two faces together? Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? liquid waterproofing (redgard) over durock cement board - bathroom ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Using Kerdi Schlueter membrane with cement board. - Houzz Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. I also used the Kerdi drain. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . This will prevent water from entering from behind the membrane, and will provide a more secure waterproof layer. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. 1. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? Liquid membrane over cement board | Terry Love Plumbing Advice Is it Sinful to put Kerdi over Hardi-backer? - Houzz Will use the Schluter Shower system. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. Find the website that's made specifically for you. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. I've never had a failure. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. taping and prepping cement board for tile - Home Improvement Forum x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label.
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