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You're better off not corner balancing the car than doing it on an unlevel of the scale to take a reading. Plus it sounds like street and autocross pressures are about the same stagger front to rear, so it really shouldn't have a noteworthy impact. to balance your car in one big step. This can make maneuvering in traffic difficult, even dangerous. We run an extremely high banked 1/5 mile clay oval in Alabama that is always wet and low bite. The important thing to remember is that the laws of physics are the same whether you are racing on an oval or a Add about 20% and slowly increase until your car turns when you let off the throttle in the middle of the corner without rolling out of the throttle. 4 Establish the exact weight change in percent that a given spring height change will make and record that number. car for a week to let the suspension settle: I decided to disconnect the front and rear sway bars to see what spring perch so I left my jacks in place between lifts and only put two lug nuts If your car's diagonal corner weights are not equal then its handling will be unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other things being equal). Ideal weight percentages: Front - 43-45% Left - 53-56% Cross - 52-54% What do these numbers mean? Typically, a road racing car should have 50% One of the keys to obtaining a good setup is using the correct procedure to weigh your race car. calipers. that as a result the coil springs must bequite beefy and stout, 600 lb/in or more. Tuning with anti-dive probably won't be . The Track (FATT) event and it handled superbly. ride heights after every change. I painstakingly leveled the scales and marked their locations 50% then Wedge Delta will be 0. This spreadsheet will also give you an estimated center of gravity height if Corner weights-cross weights - TenTenths Motorsport Forum Right now I have (IIRC) 350 lb front and 200 lb rear springs (koni sport, eibach pro line, ST anti sway bars) . Choose the cold temperatures because when the tires get hot, they will expand and your ride heights will be providing more adequate heights to pass tech after the race. If you had a car with a fully rod-ended out suspension that frictionless and frictionless tires you wouldn't need to roll the car around or bounce it or anything. In my situation, I have a lift, and I'd like to simply drop my car onto the scales, but it seems like that's the worst option as far as removing friction and bind. How NASCAR Wedge Adjustments Work | HowStuffWorks It's always possible that there's something wrong with my scales - I'll call their manufacturer and get their input an recommendations, and I'll let everybody know what they say. looking forward to getting it back! The advantage to wedge is that the left rear tire carries more load, so the car drives off the turns better. I was surprised how much these high rate Now that's pretty cool! the scales. First off, you must maintain the legal ride height to pass tech. Lowering the cross weight does the opposite of raising the cross weight. Once you have installed your coil-over suspension, mount the rims with the tires you will be racing with, and complete all other items that could impact the vehicles weight and placement of that weight. PDF iRacing Set-up Guide racers add "wedge" by adjusting the right rear spring perch--they Race Classes Whats Available and Acquiring a Racecar, Suspension, Glass Sunroof Replacement and Racing Seat and Harnesses, Fire System, Transponder, Rear View Mirror. A stiffer spring on one corner equals more weight transfer to that corner. Once you get the car up on the scales you'll Tire stagger | Bob's 4 Cycle Karting started with the Left Front because I wanted to raise the ride height of the car We do this by jacking weight into, or adding preload to, the RF spring and the LR spring. To help you, here is a method you can use to set the spring height on the shock using a spring rating fixture with coilover ends installed. the sway bars because they fail so often and the bars only added a couple of You can also use this online calculator to compute your corner %Right Weight = "If your car is really tight or really loose during hot laps, you have to take a look at the things that are going to make the biggest difference. Choose a level spot in your setup area. Maybe there's some sort of bind in the scales. MuddBoss Feature Winner at Dirt Devils RC Speedway, 12-18-2021. I borrowed some scales to weigh my Terceltomorrow. Exhaust/Headers, Limited Slip Differentials and Fuel Injectors, Engine Dyno Tuning, Racing Wheels and Air Dam/Splitters, The Costs of Racing Personal Safety Equipment & the Racecar, Brake Pads, Fluid Routine Maintenance Timeline, Dealing with Cosmetic Bodywork: Painting the Racecar Interior. The fact about this concept is when you put a softer right rear bar in, the car rolls more to the right rear but it is actually transferring less weight. Wedge Delta should be positive for oval racing. Cross weight and left side work backwards in terms of adjustment. You can lower the cross weight to help on tacky tracks. Currently, dirt car racing involves a left-hand weight measurement of 53.5-55, along with a wedge between 75-125 pounds. How To Set Up Your Car for Oval Track Racing - RacingJunk News front left and Here's how we find the multipliers. That is because all of the points move together. on my garage floor for future reference. So LF/LR = RF/RR is what you shoot for. center of gravity (CG) height by using this page: ZJjtX0xiMzjbfb86GLC7qpXBkrSlFeSNVds8hGW514OXUKSxf6kBDIneIL3TzHQV. 19. I vary mine alot depending on conditions, so should I sayset them where I would at the beginning of an average day for autoX? Then there is what I do for FWD stuff That is forget the rear weights entirely, and just balance the fronts to be equal. I stretched my tires to get the RR right and now I'm . Recheck air pressure often to assure ride heights stay consistent. Here is a screenshot with some random-ass corner weights. Shock Position Since this article still gets a bunch of traffic, just bumping it up. The less fuel in the tank the tighter the chassis will become. I put the tiles on top of the scales. Handling Guide - RACING ON THE CHEAP 2 coils cut off springs 4 corners. Iretighten them after I've made all my adjustments. I was booked for 100 laps split across four or five sessions. Please post on the appropriate 4m forum. For dual a-arm solutions, dead shocks can be used with springs and they can be built with much less bind out of the box. Just to confirm the theory I checked the corner weights with Then if it's for a particular road course, you will find several seconds optimizing for select turns and throwing any of the above methods out the window A friend's Chump Car found 2 sec at VIR making it turn right better than left. I use 2x6 wood planks as ramps to drive the car onto When dealing with advanced suspension tuning, some people may adjust the corner weights in a manner to impact the way the car handles based on the tracks layout. line above the scales and then stood on each scale and placed a ruler on the top That is what you need to read on the spring rate fixture at installed shock length. May run 4 pole motors. On a road course, the cross-weight percentage should be very close to 50 percent, within a half-degree either way, to keep the handling balance similar in a right-hand turn compared to a left-hand turn. Granted, moment centers will stay fairly consistent with small movements of the chassis in dive and roll from the ride heights being off a little. In the example at the beginning of the article, this was the problem: a cross-weight percentage that was less than 50 percent, and probably off by at least two percent. Minimizing the hysteresis is good, but it also minimizes the shock/spring contribution to effective 'at the wheel' unprung weight (mass). That math gives us a percentage number to . Right Front tires. Your car may be designed to run different ride heights than these. 8 Read the ride heights as they exist. Jun 7, 2018 #5 . What is Wedge in Dirt Racing? How Can it be Fixed? - Southern Reaceway Fans Intercomp 102030 5X5 Hub-Mounted Corner Weight Scale. 3. I created a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet do the following Then measure from the lower wheel rim edge up to a spot on the fender on a piece of masking tape. The process is so basic to the setup of the car. On oval track cars, cross-weight is usually used in conjunction with stagger (where the right rear tire is larger in circumference than the left rear tire) to balance handling. Now that we have the front-to-rear rake set, we adjust the side-to-side rake. LR coil overs 2 1/2 turns. February 2017 -Suspension design process. Take the total weight of the car in the configuration you decide on, with driver or without, and to find the corners, do the following: TVW = Total Vehicle Weight = 2,800, LSP = left side weight percent = 0.54, FWP = front weight percent = 0.51, CWP = Crossweight percent = 0.52. How To Corner Weight Your Car - Suspension Secrets Once the corner Track Side Quick Reference - FMI Knowledge Base - FMI Racing your scales. left to right. A. to get them exactly level. If most of the important turns on your It's one reason why racing pushrod suspensions tend to employ geometry with minimal shock/spring movement,requiring ultra-high spring rates and very high damping force shocks. If we are running twice as stiff a RR spring as the LR, we would need to change the height of the LR spring twice as much as the RR spring so that we don't affect the ride height as we hunt for the correct or desired weight distribution. Or do you just mean an old, worn-out strut? Disconnect the shocks, when possible, and the anti-roll bars. To calculate cross-weight percentage, add the RF weight to the LR weight and divide the sum by the total weight of the car. traction or bite in left turns. Yep, old struts that are drained of fluid and have little to no resistance. "weight jacking," or "scaling," involves adjusting the spring perches of a car That is why it gets tighter. T-Bucket . Static weight distribution is the weight resting on each tire contact patch with the car at rest, exactly the way it will be raced. So, they don't care if the scales are level, they will get what they want from unlevel scales. split the adjustment between all four wheels--extend the LF and RR 1 1/4 turns To get good accuracy easily make sure you get the low hanging fruit first like removing the friction between the tires and the scales so there is no bind. This is for a race prepped 1984 Audi 4000 quattro(2375lbs. Rear weight percentage for road racing and autocrossing is less definite. Now that the car has the correct ride heights and weight distribution for your setup, you need to make sure those don't change at the track. We will deal with preload on the bar later on. April 2017 -Bracketing settings, 4WD high speed pavement vehicle. , Left Rear = The angles are another way to set the suspension for the desired ride height and cross-weight percentage. With the driver weight, the left side might move down 1/4-inch and the right side down 1/8-inch. I This obviously means that decreasing cross weight or left side weight surface. Race Tires: Are You Ready to Spend Some Money? For example, if your initial setup is 52 percent cross-weight, and you want 50 percent cross-weight, lowering the right front or left rear corner will decrease cross-weight percentage. Dirt or asphalt? Oval racers favor left turns so they typically desire more weight So as long as you are draining the fluid from your shocks, also remove or cut away the seals. Front + Left Rear) - (Left Front + Right Rear) and tells us how much However, for dirt oval RC cars, foam tires are the norm. Or it could also be possible that the signal is smoothed in the programming. will help with those turns. balancing see my corner balance how-to and 12. RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup & Tuning Guide (21.5, dirt oval, GFRP, Custom Works, Purpose Built) - YouTube 0:00 / 43:10 Dirt Oval Setup & Tuning Tutorials RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup &. Knowing those numbers will allow you to set and/or check your ride heights if the driver isn't around by adding the difference to the intended ride heights. difficult to position all 4 scales so you can just drive up on all of them at RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup & Tuning Guide (21.5, dirt oval - YouTube Toe inn a 1/4 inch. 2) Stagger: Stagger is how much bigger the right side tires are compared to the left side tires. Using dead struts and lots of bearings will help. Setup Tips for Asphalt Oval Racing suspension). RC Oval racing is probably the easiest form of RC racing right, right? You can see that the leverage ratio in the crank link reduces coilover(and thus shock) travel, and We should now be at, or near, the desired crossweight percent. On an average dirt track you will need to change tread and stagger at least once a night, due to changing conditions. links then disconnect them for the corner balance. Corner Balance Calculator - Rob Robinette This will pitch the vehicle's. You should also complete this process with approximately the amount of gas with which you will be racing. supposed to. To increase rear weight, move weight as far back as possible. Your car can lose ride height during the race and you need to be at minimum after you leave Victory Lane. Circle Track Analyzer - Performance Trends These are your current calculated weights: Left Weight = This measurement can be manipulated by changing spring rates, coilover . 1 Establish the corner weights you think you need for your car. Both of these items will impact the cross weight of the car, and therefore they are important in the corner weighting process. "two linoleum tiles & salt" technique to allow the tires to slide on the scales Additionally, it is much more difficult to change rear percentage much, since rear weight is mostly a design function. For road racing and autocrossing, the ideal left weight percentage is 50 percent. No, not as in the law, but in being legal in tech. The Circle Track Analyzer is a computer program that simulates most any car you can design, racing on most any size oval track. Setting Ride Height & Corner Weight - Circle Track Magazine - MotorTrend This also coveys other advantages, the short shock travel means that it can be shorter and lighter. If you think about this process and become familiar with the intent of it, then your process for setting ride heights and weight distribution should become easier and faster to do, not to mention less frustrating. CG Height Calculator, Cross Weight % = I have a 96 civic with a d16/manual. are favoring the left rear tire for better acceleration out of left values shown below are totally fictional. The rear weight percentage is found in a similar manner: Add the LR and the RR weight together and divide the sum by the total weight. You can also put two linoleum tiles with salt between them on Teams that do not stay on top of these two setup phases will not only be inconsistent, they will struggle to find their way setup wise. Picture the following: Your car is really fast in right-hand turns, but understeers in left turns. I race in a spec class, so everyone is using the same equipment. However, you can choose to use them. It's To truly optimize your shocks, your overall suspension setup must be right, including ride height, camber, caster, toe, and the correct spring rates. For ovals we want a And don't ever believe the track scales. For most karts, the following weight distribution is recommended: 43% Front Weight 57% Rear Weight 50% / 50% Left / Right Weight These are just recommended starting points. A jumbo ziploc bag prevents lube from escaping when not in use. 2 When you make a spring change, bring that corner back to the measured distance from the wheel rim to the fender mark by adjusting the spring height. It is a critical set-up tool. (Right Front + Left Rear) / (Left Front + Right Rear), When balanced the Cross Weight % will be 50%. I just run higher pressure for the street, I feel mine is pretty close as is. It will let you predict and understand the effects that various modifications have on handling, performance and lap times. . I run generally 34F/30R for the street and usually (again depending on the day) drop the fronts to around 30~ and the rears to 26 or 28. I was surprised to find, contrary to my experience, that the Vette came is very close to itsexpected weight as soon as it was let down on the scales, without having to take bind out of the suspension. The effect of shock rod seal frictionat the wheel will be reduced by the crank leverage ratio. Bite tells us how much we shouldn't match the front to the rear but your left front and right front shocks I needed 3 linoleum tiles (0.045" thick Your ride heights determine your arm angles up front, as well as the cambers, and, to a lesser degree-excuse the pun-the caster angles. And since the necessary scales to complete this process cost in excess of $1,000, I suggest you have the corner weighting done by finding another club racer in your area who has (or knows someone with) access to scales and would be willing to help you. what he means is he's adding weight to the left rear and right front You should also complete this process with approximately the amount of gas with which you will be racing. Can do to just left sidesor right sides, or to all 4. the scales. Bite and Wedge Delta are works well. Dirt Track setup - heymow.com Taking the time and making the effort always pay dividends. Strive for repeatable and take the measurement as a data point, instead of an absolute. June 2017 -Center spring steering, corner judder w/ swing axle or beam axle . Matt Higgins Slash Setup / Tips | Welcome to Scale RC Racer In April 2013 I corner balanced the S for the first time in For our example, we use LF 4.00, RF 4.50, LR 4.50, RR 5.00. . I've spent an hour this afternoon trying to do corner weights "on the cheap" using our IKEA kitchen scale (cost - 15.99 a few years ago) and three wooden blocks cut to the same height as the scale (38mm). Go in hard, let off and let the drag brake pivot the car, and get right back on the throttle. Even 1/8 inch difference will make a difference, especially if you have (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); I still needed more weight on the Left Front and Right Rear so I added + 4 More wedge means that the car will likely understeer more in a left turn. Check stagger at each tire, even if using radials. Positive Caster is created when the caster line lands forward of the contact patch. Wheelbase: 9.5" min, 11.5" max Maximum width: 10.250" Minimum weight: 57.0 oz All cars must have 4-wheel independent suspension, single speed transmissions only. It is best to get 50 percent left-side weight when possible. I will say that if I'm starting on a fresh setup, or the car has been lowered, or I find myself making massive spring perch changes, then I will loosen all of the suspension bolts so that the bushings can relax and find their new happy place. difference that made. the driver seat and reconnect them so there's no preload on them. on the right front and left rear tires. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but I was amazed when I got my new scales, and let my car down on them for the first time. will help with those turns. The roll center is an imaginary point around which the rear of the race car rolls. Road racers can take a page out of the oval racing book and When you lower the panhard bar the rear roll center drops. Wedge Or am I missing something? If you want more turn in one direction put extra weight into the inside rear or outside front. Caster and Caster split can be adjusted to find more speed and stability. So we turn the RF adjuster up (to lower that corner) 2.5 turns and the LF down (to raise that corner) 2.5 turns. To carry the wheel load, the spring must be compressed quite a bit. But stagger is not a good idea on a road course or autocross either, where the ideal is 50-percent cross-weight and no stagger. We now take five rounds out of the RR and add five rounds times the rear multiplier, or 2.0 5 = 10 rounds to the LR. However, if you have to apply opposite lock steering (turning the steering wheel to the right) and you drive the car throughout the corner balancing it with the throttle . On the one hand, I'd love to have my Supra corner weighted, just to see where it's at, see if there's room for improvement. 5. Note your ride heights and tank of gas, and no driver or passenger: Now here's the same stock S2000 with a 215lb driver in the seat: I was really surprised to see how far off the stock S2000 was important for oval racers, especially on dirt ovals. Basically, I don't see much of a relationship between 'static' corner weighing via adjusting spring length and the addressing of fundamental L/R weight imbalance as those difference are what drive suspension and mass motions when moving. Wedge Delta can also be thought of camber angle of the wheels (-3.5 front, -3 rear). When you adjust your coil overs Scale Type: . W. William18 New member. I put the car on the scales and input the four corner Do this by making equal changes to the adjusters on each side. The following are screen shots from the Kart WHEEL BALANCE - www.KartPartsDepot.com coil over 5 turns. How To Understand Differentials - RC Car Action Front and Right Rear need 51 lbs of additional weight to balance the car. Step 1 - Determine Sprung Weight. Recheck the ride heights and adjust to fine tune, making changes to the front and rear at the same time. The height of the rear roll center (and the front also) is critical to handling. preload (extending the shock) to the Left Front, and one positive turn to the Right Front. When I weigh my cars I try not too overthink all this binding stuff. And actually you'rereally not going to changefront/rear weight balance with ride height changes, so itreally only matters that pressures are even side to side. I commented on this to the youtubevideo on TIG welding, where they put their C5 Vette on scales and had a contest to guess the weight correctly, so I apologize for the duplicate posts. springs to put more weight on the left rear (and right front) tires and Hub stands are a great idea just for ease of access, but removing friction is an added benefit. What you're saying makes sense, but I can't explain why it took so long for my car to settle into its final weight reading. Wheel Offset Changes - Dirt Track Supply All of these measurements are widened by the There are many ways to corner balance a car. Its important to measure and note your adjustment so I have a history of each adjustment. Wouldn't the fact that it is front wheel drive change at least the front to rear percentages? are favoring the left rear tire for better acceleration out of left intentionally favor a turn direction. Comet Kart Sales - Karting 101 - Getting Started in Kart Racing We used to run about 1/8 of toe-in at the local tracks, and this helps the kart to cut through a corner easier in the center, where the steering is the greatest. If it slows to 100rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 300rpm. If we remember, or record this number, then we can easily make changes in the future to get to our intended crossweight percent fast and easy. Corner Balance - Rob Robinette Circle-Track Setup: What Is Toe, And Why Should You Use It? Even on a track with mostly right-hand turns, the problem in the left-hand turns costs a lot of time. does not change when a driver is added. The left weight percentage is found by adding the LF weight to the LR weight and dividing the sum by the total weight. . dry)! My starting cross weight was 50.6%, I was off 7lbs We run a fixed chassis meaning no suspension and the Briggs lo206 so we aren't sliding it around the corner but tracking almost like an asphalt Kart. To properly corner weight the car, it is necessary to add weight to the drivers seat which is approximately equal to the weight of the driver (or have the driver sit in the car). 2. I even thought my excel spreadsheet calculated it's recommended corner weights to achieve 50% cross weight. In the above example, to go from 52 percent to 50 percent cross-weight, try lowering the right front and the left rear one-half turn on the weight jack bolt or spring perch while raising the left front and right rear the same amount. Find the difference from the desired average ride heights. Just make sure none of them are flat or wildly overinflated. The salt acts as tiny ball bearings and will allow the tires to I mainly run the 3/8. Now with the steering straight ahead and both hands on the steering have your buddy record the . Cross-weight percentage compares the diagonal weight totals to the car's total weight. Speaking of springs, it's a good idea The vanilla neon setup would be SDK suspension (stock ACR, look at neon.org and figure out what you have) with 3.5 deg front camber, 1 to 1.5 rear, zero to 1/8" in toe front and rear. And what do you mean by "lots of bearings"? If your car's diagonal corner weights are not equal then its handling will be With an oval track car turning to the left, weight will transfer from the inside to the outside. typically not concerned with bite and wedge delta because they usually To keep it clear in my head, I think of the car as a four-legged table sitting on a mattress. Upgrade fluid and/or cool. be appropriate such as making small adjustments to all 4 wheels--add preload to Softer tire compound Right Rear Increase Right front and left rear Corner Weights Bicycling Left side tires lose contact with the racing surface More overall left side weight % if you have any of the scales connected improperly (i.e. Adjust the front up by 0.0625-inch and the rear down by 0.4375-inch. A place where you can add in your Photo Galleries. Take care that the car does not accidently slide off the scale pads. Wheel Load-We have already determined the wheel load we desire in No. Brake pads badly taper worn - replace. In order for the table to stand steady, all four legs should be of equal length, and as a consequence each will apply equal pressure on the floor. 12. As for setting the left side and right side equal, I understandthe reason why it might be best, but hard for me to picture how to adjust it.